Ok so I'm not sure if this is the right place to talk about this, but I've been thinking about writing my own gamebook (for this amazing site), something I considered before but due to life was never really able to start on. However, I love the site, and it would be an honour to contribute something towards it.

On that note, I have a few ideas for potential gamebooks, and whilst hopefully I will write all of them at some point, obviously I need to start with one of them. So I was wondering if you could all give me your opinions on which one you would be most interested in, so I could focus on that one for now. My ideas are these:

Halixor's Gauntlet
A Deathtrap Dungeon-style challenge to retrieve the knife of a legendary hero from where it lies still embedded in a dragon's skull. There will, of course, be other challengers, allowing for some minor character development (similar to Throm) and interesting encounters (like the Ninja). However, unlike Deathtrap Dungeon, set outside, allowing for a potentially more open world.

Trial by Ice
You are a pathetic excuse for a hero, about to quit the adventuring life after three disappointing years, when the Champion of the Lightning Goddess shows up and summons you on a quest with him. Allows for much more character development, and constructing a world that really immerses the challenger in the adventure, from sweltering jungles to chilling ice caves.

The Dragon's Hoard
A dragon that has been dead for millennia once commanded a great hoard of treasure. However, this hoard has never been found, so you decide to recover it yourself. Lacking funds, you decide to take on one or more side-quests in order to finance your operation, leading to a Scorpion Swamp-esque system, with the difference being you can take on up to five side-quests. Obviously, the more quests taken, the greater your funding (and therefore better equipment), but all the quests you take on MUST be completed before you can win. And all (other than the first part) set in the bowels of a mysterious volcano.

Due to my lack of familiarity with the geography and lore of Titan, none of these would take place there, and would instead feature there own, unique land and different lore, including different gods and goddesses, which will hopefully be seen as refreshingly new. Please let me know what you think (and move this post to wherever it should be), as I would really value your opinions. Thank you! :)

Shadow
Mon Jan 21 22:39:08 2019

Gavin
Thu Feb 7 12:06:34 2019

Sorry for the delay on replying to this but, I'd be interested in the pathetic excuse for an adventurer, especially with appropriately low stats....

A. E. Johnston
Mon Mar 18 06:07:47 2019

Hi Shadow,

Just wanted to give my opinion since you are looking to write a gamebook- I have a few stories I’ve had in the works for a while, most of which are being continually worked upon, but I did submit a finished gamebook a few years ago to Windhammer which received mostly positive reviews. Basically I’m no Gavin Mitchell/ Robert/ Ulysses AI, haha, but hopefully I can provide some constructive feedback.

Before focusing on a setting, try to think about the different paths available to the reader and think what would lead to the most exciting scenarios- linearity is always to be avoided, but then again too many dead-ends/ instant death pathways can also spell the instant death of your story! My favorite example is based on the gamebook “Trial of Champions” (the sequel to Deathtrap Dungeon). By the time I had cracked how to beat it, I had played through it so many times that it was no longer enjoyable, and reaching the end felt more like a chore than a climactic finish. In that gamebook there are so many vital items needed that missing one automatically leads to failure down the road. I would stay away from this in general for whichever story you plan to write! You can use Twine or a different type of software to keep track of your pathways if it helps, and also what items are needed to progress to certain areas (if at all).

Like any story, gamebook or not, interesting characters, settings and plot lines also need to be a focus. What are the motivations of the character? Why should we care? Do their actions make sense in the grand scheme of the story? Saying that let me comment on your proposed ideas:

Halixor's Gauntlet
A tried and true gamebook formula, and honestly one I will always enjoy. Deathtrap Dungeon will forever be a fan favorite, but if you do decide on this route try to add your own spin to it (the outside setting probably won’t be enough to give it flavor to be honest, and setting in an outdoor maze is also something we have seen before and that I wouldn’t necessarily recommend).

Trial by Ice
Sounds similar to the beginning of “Portal of Evil”, another fan favorite about a down on his luck adventurer. Has potential, but again, unless you can add a new dimension to the storyline to make it “pop” it may be best to stay away, as to not rehash an old idea.

The Dragon's Hoard
Interesting premise, but try to avoid making things to complicated, both for the reader, and for yourself the author. Also sounds similar to the “Hobbit” trilogy, so again try to avoid re-hashing stories that already exist, or taking the same storyline and slightly tweaking it.

My biggest piece of advice is don’t feel as if you have to be caged in by the fantasy genre- if you want to stick to fantasy that’s absolutely fine, but keep in mind that all sorts of gamebooks/ stories exist (case in point, the latest update to the site is a story about a 40 year old guy at a music festival combating depression and alcohol consumption).

All three of your ideas have merit, but if you decide to stick to one of them do try to make the story “yours” and as original as possible. Hope this helps!

Ulysses
Mon Mar 18 14:10:25 2019

@Shadow

In addition to the good advice above, I would add that you should perhaps think about the length of each adventure and begin with the one that is likely to be the shortest.
My reading of the three ideas gives me the impression that:
-The Dragon's Hoard would be the longest adventure with the most things to keep track of.
-Halixor's Gauntlet can be as long as you want it to be, although the longer it is the 'richer' the story will need to be to avoid it just being a series of rooms that ends up becoming tedious.
-Trial by Ice is the simplest premise and one that can work as a short adventure. I would avoid the temptation to do too much world-building and keep all of your story branches parallel rather than divergent.

Obviously, I am recommending Trial by Ice, although possibly lesser in scope than you may have been imagining (you can also create sequels to enlarge the world later, perhaps writing an entire series and maybe even finishing it instead of leaving everyone hanging...).
To help limit the scope and add an interesting angle to the story, you could have the Champion of the Lightning Goddess look on the main character with utter contempt, offering no explanations, just a stipend to accompany him/her. Part of the plot can be uncovering what the Champion really wants you to do and why you were chosen. The point of all this or a similar idea is to give the story a central plot beyond the quest itself, and allows the plot development to be more than just a series of events/enemies/traps, etc.

Happy writing.

Gavin
Mon Mar 18 15:46:09 2019

I don't think the protagonist of Day in the Life is combating alcohol consumption, Inebriation is meant to be your high score. I had the idea for a Day in the Life II where our thirsty hero explores the outsider art scene of Wolverhampton and Birmingham, but meanwhile the second mission of New Day Rising is reaching within measurable distance of its end.

Shadow
Thu Apr 4 10:13:05 2019

Thank you to all of you for your advice, I will certainly take it on board.

I will make Trial by Ice my focus for now, which I'm perfectly happy with as it was my (admittedly weak) preference of the three. I do also think that it is likely to be the shortest.

@A.E.Johnston: Funny you should mention Trial of Champions, as it was the first FF gamebook I ever owned. I share your feelings of frustration as there was one path you HAD to follow, and even with a map with the correct route drawn on it was an infuriatingly challenging process. I assure you I will avoid a similar scenario in my own.
Also, I am not that familiar with all the FF Series, so it is likely that any parallels with the series will be entirely accidental and unknowingly done. That said, I would like to avoid such incidents so perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can review my work at some points to ensure that doesn't happen.

@Ulysses: First of all your work on this site is amazing!
Secondly, you recommend keeping the adventure short, so I would like to know how short you would suggest. I hadn't planned on writing anything on the scale of your 1,000-passage epics, I had in mind a standard 400 but was prepared to compromise if the story didn't seem to hold that many. I would appreciate your thoughts.

Many thanks once again for the great advice from both of you. It is really appreciated and I will keep it firmly in mind as I write.

Ulysses
Thu Apr 4 12:08:54 2019

@Shadow

Thanks for the compliment :)

My assumption is that the shortest adventure will also be the simplest (which actually isn't always true), making it a manageable story to be able to complete and learn from before moving on to attempting more complex structures (in usually longer stories).
As for the actual length of your first venture I would let the story dictate that. You could approach this in a number of ways:
1. Find an existing gamebook that seems to be of similar scope to what you have in mind such as number of locations and whether the choices are largely parallel of divergent and plan your own gamebook to be a similar length.
2. Actually plan out all of the branching paths of your adventure, count up how many references you need, then multiply that number by 1.5 to give yourself some room to move - in my experience it always takes more references than you think once you start writing.
3. Don't worry about how long it is going to be and just start writing. I believe there are programs available that will randomly assign numbers to your references, but I don't use those so I can't recommend one. A number of times I remember I have used up my original estimate for the number of references I needed without the story being complete. In these cases I have had to add more references (I seem to recall having to do this a couple of times for particular stories). This isn't a problem, especially when the gamebook is played online, but it does mean than your references are not distributed evenly. It's not that difficult to make sure you don't have gaps if you keep track of things, and also not difficult to make sure you end on a round number (if desirable) by adding in choices somewhere.

Shadow
Thu Apr 4 13:16:08 2019

@Ulysses

Thank you for your continued advice. I am going to use twine to initially write the story, then transfer it into the standard FF format of numbered passages. However, your advice to plan out each pathway separately is not something I had considered, so I will take your advice and, if I feel that I may be too ambitious, I can work out what to cut. A more focussed adventure is not necessarily a bad thing, I think.

As a side-note, apologies if my comments appear multiple times. Every time I refresh the page it seems to re-post the last comment I posted. I don't know if you can also see this, but I apologise if you can, I am not doing it deliberately.

Phil Sadler
Thu Apr 4 14:02:20 2019

Oh that 'multiple posts' thing has happened to me too :-(

Etienne
Sun Jan 5 14:12:01 2020

Hello!

I've been trying to read how the various authors write their gamebooks in the feedback sections but I'm pretty sure I missed some.

To authors:
How do you proceed when writing a gamebook? Try to be as detailed as possible in your writing process please: optimal method, software used, use of maps, inventory size, number of instant deaths...

also: what you consider to be the fundamentals of a good gamebook and things to avoid.

Thank you!

Phil Sadler
Sun Jan 5 18:23:50 2020

Well I tend to go like this:

1.) General idea for a story, but it may be best to do your own sequel to one of the real FF books you love if it's your first attempt.

2.) Get a map together and fill it with essential, useful or red-herring items.

3.) Have some of those items guarded by favourite monsters, tricks, riddles or other types of traps, but try to fool the reader into not knowing which items are which straight away.

4.) Have some fights interspaced between the essential items, as well as other interesting situations such as mass-battles, wild-goose chases and bluffs/double-bluffs.

5.) Have a sprinkling of instant deaths here and there.

6.) Play test it (I always try to balance for 'average' characters, apart from in my first book where I was too inexperienced).

7.) Edit it.

8.) Release it.

Now for some general advice:

(a) Always try to balance so that an average (skill 9) character can get through, that way, if he can, then those characters near him in abilities (Skill 8, 10 and 11) should be able to as well. Don't worry about the extreme ends of the skill spectrum.

(b) Do the same for luck and stamina.

(c) Try not to have enemies of more than 9 skill unless they are weak, avoidable or have other ways to weaken them or power yourself up.

(d) Try to avoid to many tests for luck/skill/stamina, especially ones that result in death, absolutely especially on the 'main path'.

(e) Try not to have a complete shopping list of items, especially essential ones. It's just book-keeping for the player.

(f) Almost always end each paragraph with at least one choice.

(g) Not too many 'dead' rooms with nothing or very little in them because you'll go there once and then never again.

(h) Give the player a few clues here and there but sprinkle in a few false ones too.

(i) For monster encounters you should make them interesting in one of two ways: either the monster itself (triple-headed dragon for instance) or the combat instead (he can take your skill or luck or become more powerful or steal your things or break your sword or weaken you, or whatever).

Etienne
Mon Jan 6 11:23:48 2020

Great! This is exactly what I wanted to know.

Also, how long do you think a ref should be to avoid being wordy?

Phil Sadler
Mon Jan 6 12:06:36 2020

A ref should be as long as you like; as long as you feel it should be.

Etienne
Tue Jan 7 00:34:28 2020

Don't know about that. I've read criticism before on other books here about being too wordy and I often agree.

Anyhow, has anyone ever tried starting from the "end" and going backwards? Did you think it worked out in the end? I'm trying to find the best way to do this. I'm about 20 refs in by now.

Phil Sadler
Sat Feb 1 06:04:07 2020

I often write the end ref before the books are finished. Indeed I tend to write whichever sections feel the most interesting to me.

Gavin
Sat Feb 1 08:12:15 2020

I wrote the end paragraphs to Outsider pretty much first, especially the Eminem ending

Tammy
Sat Feb 15 05:04:33 2020

I write in whatever i feel like doing at the time. I never write the ending first (although i already know it in my head). Also there is no such thing as a wordy gamebook, some games have longer paragraphs due to the extensive plot, while other references are shorter because they dont need to explain much. I like wordy gamebooks especially ones with a very long background info before turning to 1. There is one particular FF gamebook i wish was very wordy and long because i have hundreds of questions about the villain. Things just go unanswered and leave the reader guessing.

Paul Mc
Fri Feb 28 13:31:52 2020

What's the email address to send my new gamebook in to put on the site. I have just completed Labyrinth of the Father and it's ready to go. I've forgotten the email.

duffmeister
Sun Mar 22 12:53:01 2020

Kinda interesting to hear your thoughts on long intros, Tammy. When I submitted 'The Scarlet Thief' for the Windhammer competition years ago, most of the feedback I got was positive, but one of the big pieces of criticism that I got was that some people really didn't like how long the intro and setup was, feeling that it didn't really seem very interactive, but just loads of exposition (first you hearing about a criminal, then you getting mistaken for the criminal, then you having people try to arrest you, then for mysterious reasons you get a chance to escape and some clues, all without any player choices). But I agree that a detailed intro can really add atmosphere and excitement (like how, to be honest, I've always thought 'Creature of Havoc' is a slightly overrated gamebook, maybe just cause I never managed to finish it, but I always really liked the detailed introductory backstory bits which seemed so much more atmospheric than just 'You go to a dungeon and you want to kill a wizard there'). I think arguably the best way to 'get both options' is to start with a not-super-long intro followed by a big choice (or choices) followed by the more detailed backstory after that so that things feel more interactive (like how in 'The Word Fell Silent' there is a whole lot of setup and information to build atmosphere, but before you get to that you have to decide which of the three religious groups you belong to, which has huge consequences for the adventure and affects the initial paragraph which you get to read).

Tammy
Mon Mar 23 05:47:21 2020

It solely depends on you. Don't listen to critics that tell how you should go about things. It's your writing, it's your choice. If they don't like it, that's fine. Some people are just too lazy to read a lot of text while others are impatient and want to get to the interaction immediately.

It's always a curfew on my mature content, don't make it so violent, don't be so gory or sexual, but it's what I do. If they don't like they don't have to read it or bother leaving a comment.

If you want your gamebook to be wordy, then alright. If you want it short and to the point, very well. It depends on you and as i always tell others "DO IT to please YOU not others because once you start writing for others you lose your enjoyment of far-fetched creativity and now you'll be afraid to let them down, expect greater things, or rely strictly on judgement and reviews of your work."

But as it's always nice to hear feedback, write the book with as many long reference as you like. Just don't be like Charles Dickens who took two pages full of paragraphs to describe a tree.

Derek Metaltron
Sun Apr 12 10:45:30 2020

Hey everyone, new person here, some great content on the site! I am just wondering what people's opinions are about doing fan made game books (either with FF mechanics or not and either open world or not) based on established settings, probably any of the following...

- Star Wars
- Doctor Who
- Marvel
- DC
- Fallout
- Skyrim
- Horizon: Zero Dawn
- Hitman

I want to say I have a lot of ideas and a lot of free time right now because of current situations and I really like the idea of dipping my toes into making a gamebook finally, but I don't know if some people dislike games that take content from established universes (outside Fighting Fantasy anyway) or not. But clearly I have my loves and it's nice when you have some lore or even RPG inspired material to work with!

Also I am wondering what size is best to start with! Long term I would love to make a 1000+ section epics that Fabled Lands would be proud of with plenty of adventures and quests and such but I know it's best to sharpen my skills on something more straightforward first! I have to say I liked Andrew Wright's idea of micro adventures with 25 sections or mini adventures with 50 sections, and the short games with 100 sections sound ideal too, so should I start there before tackling a 400-500er or a 1000er?

Thanks in advance!

Robert Douglas
Sun Apr 12 14:52:43 2020

Hi Derek, welcome to the group! A good list of possible ideas for gamebooks set in those particular worlds/universes. Personally though, I would say that open-world video games such as Fallout and Skyrim already speak (perhaps more efficiently) for themselves within RPG circles. Much as we all love gamebooks on this site, and how entertaining they have been and still can be despite their somewhat archaic approach to gaming, each one of us are painfully aware the limitations regarding choices. Admittedly, open world video games have much more choice of direction, methods employed, beside the sight and sound lacking in gamebooks. One of my favourite games would be Deus Ex - and Ian Livingstone was actually the Eidos Chairman during release way back in 2000. Even so, its 'multi-path' approach was partially inspired by the gamebook mechanic: do I go in guns blazing, venture beneath by taking the sewers, or climb that ladder to the rooftop and go from there...?

However, the Marvel universe of superpowered heroes and villains is very popular - and one already emulated by Steve Jackson in the form of his fantastic 'Appointment With F.E.A.R'. Reading through it might give you inspiration, even what you might have done differently. And the good thing about this is you can execute such ideas and have it posted on this site. However, please bear in mind, while FF publications are open to fan-written prequels, sequels, or parallels to the plots, tread very carefully around copyright-protected worlds and universes. As you said yourself: 'based' upon - and it's far better to create your own world inspired by, but not directly taking from, established worlds/universes. Appointment with F.E.A.R achieved this without treading on the toes of actual Marvel superheroes/villains - yet they had similar ideas, powers, and character backstories. Steve Jackson made a tribute to his beloved Marvel comic hobby and all without incurring legal wrath. All published novels and gamebooks set within such franchises - Dr Who, Assassin's Creed, Star Wars, Robin Hood, to name but a few - were written by authors specially commissioned and bound under legal contract. Sorry if I sound a bit like a lawyer, but rules are there for a reason.

Whether the overall theme is horror, sci-fi, steampunk, post-apocalypse, comedy, including some or even all these genres, the best thing is to play to your strengths - or your loves as you mentioned above - as you already have the necessary inspiration necessary for enthusiasm. As to actual length, I would recommend a short adventure as an ideal starting point - something like 100 entries - just to get your teeth into, trying out ideas first, and that many entries gives you some room to play with during writing. However, one factor to also bear in mind is not to limit yourself; for example, you might have written about 120 or 130 by the time you've finished writing in all your ideas. 50, 100, 400....all are ideal round numbers. Don't be afraid, or limit yourself, to have 125 or 415. I'm currently writing Sean Calibre Book 2 and planned something like 450 entries - I suddenly realized there wouldn't be enough to cater for the scope of choices and expanded it to 600!

Whatever you decide, I hope the writing goes okay <:-)>

Yaztromo
Fri Jun 19 04:23:47 2020

Over ten years ago I came across a Star Wars fan gamebook series that followed Lone Wolf game mechanics (after all, the Jedi are not that different from the Kai...) and it was really great!

WRT size, my strong suggestion is to start small. You will increase size once you will get your technique perfected.

I suggest you make a good use of the (free) tool called Libro Game Creator http://www.matteoporopat.com/librogame/libro-game-creator-3/#download-lgc
Don't get scared off by the language, there is also an English version....

A.E.Johnston
Sat Jun 19 02:58:30 2021

Hi Derek,

It has been a while since I have messaged, but saw your question and just wanted to chip in my $0.02.

- Star Wars: Everyone likes Star Wars- BUT therein lies the issue. This is such a large franchise I wouldnt be surprised there are already officially published gamebooks, so I would likely steer clear unless it is a franchise you are very passionate about.
- Doctor Who: I am not a large fan of Doctor Who, but this would likely fall into the sci-fi category. Ulysses AI has explored may sci fi stories, so it may be worth looking into another genre.
- Marvel: Not a big comic fan, and it seems that this is already a series with a huge fanbase. Originality and making stories may be an issue and outweigh the value of the established media.
- DC: See above for Marvel.
- Fallout: Promising! the post apocalyptic genre is of great enjoyment and almost criminally overlooked. The Fallout game series also has diverse background in their games, and provides a good background.
- Skyrim: Also sounds promising, another Bethesda game series with diverse gameplay and background that would translate well to FF.
- Horizon: Zero Dawn: I am not familiar enough to comment.
- Hitman: Would transfer well to FF! Good idea, worth looking into.

Hope this helps!

YARD
Fri Aug 11 12:03:39 2023

I was excited when I first saw this conversation topic, but now I realize the last post was 2 years ago, and the initiating post over 3 years ago! Seems like Derek hasn't been able to go ahead with any of those ideas?

To be honest, it's really quite impressive that The Project has 56 gamebooks by my count, and practically all of them appear to be original works? Well, Bodies in the Docks is obviously Lovecraftian (though since Lovecraft has always been public domain, it's still a different kind of a phenomenon) and perhaps some are related to the settings of the official Fighting Fantasy books (I really haven't played that many of the official gamebooks) but it is still remarkable that no-one has apparently decided to spin off a more widely familiar setting, and instead all successful works have staked out their own claim.

Oh well, perhaps I can be the first, then. I'll keep the setting a secret until my work is done, to avoid raising expectations in case it fails, but I'll say the setting I intend to work on is not any of the ones which were mentioned above.

Gabe Fandango
Wed Aug 16 06:50:51 2023

Hi, I realize that this hasn't been very active for a while, so I hope the site admin will see this...

I've recently finished writing my first gamebook. Well, technically, I wrote it many years ago, back in my student days, in handwritten manuscript. Of course, I had to go back and more or less edit every single section when I decided to turn it into a softcopy version, because the original draft was written by a kid (and who frankly wasn't very fluent in English - it wasn't my Mother Tongue). I can't really call it a rewrite - the content and design of the book pretty much remained as it was, but I basically reworded all the sentences and paragraph to make the English less broken, and added an extra line here or there to patch up some missing loopholes. The end result is something like what Terry Pratchett described his book "The Carpet People" to be: something that's not entirely written by young me or old me.

Anyway, the book is actually meant to be part of a "series" of sorts. It's an idea similar to the "companion adventures" of the Lone Wolf series published under Mongoose (although kid me thought of the idea before Mongoose did it), with the PC of each mini-adventure being a minor character of the main series. The book I've recently "finished" features a minor character from "The Warlock of Firetop Mountain" as the PC - namely, the bearded prisoner rescued by the Hero from his cell and now trying to escape from Firetop Mountain (the title of the mini-adventure is called "Escape from Firetop Mountain).

Anyway, I understand that you may not have the time (or think it's good enough) to ever make this book available for online play on this site, but I'm hoping you can at least still put it on the downloads section if I send you soft copy.

Can I just check if I can still send the softcopy to this address in the contact link to be hosted in the download section: <info@ffproject.com>?

Many thanks.

Yes, definitely.

Gabe Fandango
Wed Aug 16 14:50:07 2023

Thank you. I've sent the soft copy to the above address. :)

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